Curse

Obrien Xp · Nov 17, 2009, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Fierce

Ranger= GW swiss army knife, useless for everything, excells at nothing, worthless? Hardly.

QFT

I find my ranger to be very versatile, he can deal decent damage, spread conditions, interrupt, have the help of a pet and, lay traps. Rangers also make good runners. They may not be the best at any one thing, but they are very good at everything.

FoxBat · Nov 17, 2009, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

Wheres the verity I've been hearing about from everyone here? The core of ranger builds are all very similar. Sure, your changing an elite, but that doesnt change the fact that its nearly the same build.

The above builds are pretty blah to bad in PvE - and even in PvP yes you basically are playing that bar, the versatility is how you can use that bar in a gvg match - apply pressure, interrupt healers, interrupt spikes, assist on a spike, harrass a flagger, gank npcs, snare ppl running away, etc.

PvE ranger versatility = expertise abuse on secondaries more or less.

Tenebrae · Nov 18, 2009, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

Thats what annoys me with rangers. I've been playing my current ranger for over 3 years now, and what bothers me is the lack of build diversity.

Theres your staple bar (dshot, savage shot, apply poison, natural stride, etc) plus an elite.

You can change (if you want to call it that) your build by changing the elite and thats it.

If you had played a ranger for 3 years you wouldnt say that. Btw your "staple" bar is not stable or rigid at all , i do only use first one in almost all of my builds. If you are talking about pvp , you are in the wrong place ( see FoxBat post ).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

Just look at pvx for proof:

Another mistake

. You cant use that web for a "proof" sorry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

Wheres the verity I've been hearing about from everyone here? The core of ranger builds are all very similar. Sure, your changing an elite, but that doesnt change the fact that its nearly the same build.

And dont bother mention gimmicky builds either, I'm looking at bow builds here.

Beast Mastery says Hi ! , i thought that in 3 years you did notice it lol . Well if you are only looking for Marks builds that include dshot, savage shot, apply poison, natural stride ( 4 skills ) .... sure you are using almost the same build and you dont see variety but pal , if you have your eyes closed you cant complain about not seeing variety on rangers .... you just "dont see" at all , see my point ?.

If you dont want gimmick builds or builds that dont use bow or any second prof skill in a class that have many of those .... you should have deleted your ranger long ago. Its like making a monk but not wanting to play any healing or prot skills bar, ofc youll get bored to hell and wont see variety. Cheers

Moonlit Azure · Nov 18, 2009, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

If you had played a ranger for 3 years you wouldnt say that. Btw your "staple" bar is not stable or rigid at all , i do only use first one in almost all of my builds. If you are talking about pvp , you are in the wrong place ( see FoxBat post ).

Now sure what your trying to say here. I never said my "staple" bar was rigid or stable.

Quote:

Another mistake

. You cant use that web for a "proof" sorry.

Why cant I use the web for proof? Its not like im throwing some garbage build at you, this is a very common ranger build. I don't need to go in game to find that out.

Quote:

Beast Mastery says Hi ! , i thought that in 3 years you did notice it lol . Well if you are only looking for Marks builds that include dshot, savage shot, apply poison, natural stride ( 4 skills ) .... sure you are using almost the same build and you dont see variety but pal , if you have your eyes closed you cant complain about not seeing variety on rangers .... you just "dont see" at all , see my point ?.

If you dont want gimmick builds or builds that dont use bow or any second prof skill in a class that have many of those .... you should have deleted your ranger long ago. Its like making a monk but not wanting to play any healing or prot skills bar, ofc youll get bored to hell and wont see variety. Cheers

Beast masters, even with the recent buffs, are still not great. They just don't do much and waste my skill slots.

And what other bow builds dont use dshot, apply poison, and a stance (I'll broaden away from just natural stride)? These are skills that are pretty necessary to pve and pvp.

I just dont see the use of using a scythe or some other weapon on my ranger. I feel that your taking away from your role as class to fulfill your jack of all trades mantra.

I can see fine, I just dont run gimmicky builds and claim they're interesting or original.

Tenebrae · Nov 19, 2009, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

Now sure what your trying to say here. I never said my "staple" bar was rigid or stable.

Well since you cant see a skill bar without em , they are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

this is a very common ranger build. I don't need to go in game to find that out.

No its not , at least on ppl that have 3+ years playing with a MAIN ranger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

Beast masters, even with the recent buffs, are still not great. They just don't do much and waste my skill slots.

Oh you didnt check. Ofc is not "zomg i wtfpwn lvl 30 in 5 sec" but it is really good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

And what other bow builds dont use dshot, apply poison, and a stance (I'll broaden away from just natural stride)? These are skills that are pretty necessary to pve and pvp.

That proofs my point

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

I just dont see the use of using a scythe or some other weapon on my ranger. I feel that your taking away from your role as class to fulfill your jack of all trades mantra.

I can see fine, I just dont run gimmicky builds and claim they're interesting or original.

Well some roles are to fill gaps between roles in the party so if that makes you feel that way , ok , but that "feeling" is not a reason to say they have "lack of build diversity" . Its just you pal , if you dont like it and dont want to use it , fine .... but they exist.

Aldric · Nov 19, 2009, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

Theres your staple bar (dshot, savage shot, apply poison, natural stride, etc) plus an elite.

You can change (if you want to call it that) your build by changing the elite and thats it.

And dont bother mention gimmicky builds either, I'm looking at bow builds here.

If DS / SS / AP and NS is a rigid bar for your pve builds then your pretty much doing it wrong. PvP yah but PvE? not really.

I run a number of builds from Glass Arrows spiker , Prep shot turret , splinter volley/barage. As support i run either 'SY' or EDA blindbot and even occasionally if a silly pug leader asks , BHA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

And dont bother mention gimmicky builds either, I'm looking at bow builds here.

Fine but a huge part of Ranger versatility is secondary abuse.

I've run R/P, R/W, R/A and R/D all using secondary weapons and there are some very good builds for each of those, especially imo R/P Beastmasters. (personally I kinda sucked at R/A and R/D but that just me being shit

)

IronSheik · Nov 19, 2009, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Oh you didnt check. Ofc is not "zomg i wtfpwn lvl 30 in 5 sec" but it is really good.

No...they aren't.

Relying on crap AI to do crap damage while you throw base damage spears isn't good by far.

To Moonlit, dshot and apply poison are near useless in HM PvE, while interrupts in NM are moot. A human can not efficiently interrupt anything in HM, even with BHA, which sucks in the first place.

You're thinking too much of the normal PvP bar, which sucks in PvE. Many PvE bow bars consist of prepared shot, glass arrows, asuran scan, zojun's shot, point blank, sundering attacking, expert's focus, etc. With almost no conditions or interrupts.

Moonlit Azure · Nov 19, 2009, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

No...they aren't.

Relying on crap AI to do crap damage while you throw base damage spears isn't good by far.

To Moonlit, dshot and apply poison are near useless in HM PvE, while interrupts in NM are moot. A human can not efficiently interrupt anything in HM, even with BHA, which sucks in the first place.

You're thinking too much of the normal PvP bar, which sucks in PvE. Many PvE bow bars consist of prepared shot, glass arrows, asuran scan, zojun's shot, point blank, sundering attacking, expert's focus, etc. With almost no conditions or interrupts.

I understand. As for the dshot bars, I'm talking more about pvp.

Interrupting is useless in pve, hell, I dont even need to do anything in pve to be good.

My main bar in pve is a splinter barrager, it works well for most situations.

I really like glass arrows and prepared shot bars, they can do great damage. I even use prepared shot or infuriating heat with save yourselves. But mashing buttons gets boring eventually.

To me ranger skills have become stale lately, theres been no updating with any skills for a while and the same old builds are getting boring.

Introverted Dimensions · Nov 19, 2009, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

I understand. As for the dshot bars, I'm talking more about pvp.

Interrupting is useless in pve, hell, I dont even need to do anything in pve to be good.

My main bar in pve is a splinter barrager, it works well for most situations.

I really like glass arrows and prepared shot bars, they can do great damage. I even use prepared shot or infuriating heat with save yourselves. But mashing buttons gets boring eventually.

To me ranger skills have become stale lately, theres been no updating with any skills for a while and the same old builds are getting boring.

I feel like there's a lack of variety with ranger builds.

I've been running splinter barrage on my ranger for the past year and a half.

Notorious Bob · Nov 19, 2009, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by trx despair

I feel like there's a lack of variety with ranger builds.

I've been running splinter barrage on my ranger for the past year and a half.

Wow. So your inability to use the variety of skills available is a failing of the Ranger profession as a whole..

Wow!

\facepalm/

IronSheik · Nov 19, 2009, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

I understand. As for the dshot bars, I'm talking more about pvp.

To me ranger skills have become stale lately, theres been no updating with any skills for a while and the same old builds are getting boring.

Campfires PvE, but yeah, ranger PvP bars are same thing just staple elites.

Rangers can do anything in PvE good, except for being a ranger, oh the irony.

Introverted Dimensions · Nov 19, 2009, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notorious Bob

Wow. So your inability to use the variety of skills available is a failing of the Ranger profession as a whole..

Wow!

\facepalm/

How nice of you to jump down my throat.

I've made builds of my own and I've tried many off pvxwiki. I just feel that splinter barrage just works generally better in different situations than everything else.

Notorious Bob · Nov 20, 2009, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by trx despair

How nice of you to jump down my throat.

I've made builds of my own and I've tried many off pvxwiki. I just feel that splinter barrage just works generally better in different situations than everything else.

Then why not say that in the 1st place?

You could make the same argument about Perma-Sins etc. Does one build being more effective than others make the profession "useless"?

There is no "lack of builds" for Rangers and builds are hugely situational. Players "like" splinter barrage for PvE because of all those pretty yellow numbers floating about enemies heads. But condition Rangers, trappers, touchers, interrupters etc. all still have a place in PvE.

IronSheik · Nov 20, 2009, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notorious Bob

But condition Rangers, trappers, touchers, interrupters etc. all still have a place in PvE.

Where?

Trappers are good for...UW farming? Extremely inefficient, Touchers are good at A time for heroes maybe. Interrupters...can't think of anywhere. Condition...again, no where.

Fay Vert · Nov 20, 2009, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Trappers were hit very hard with the loot nerf, but still of some use solo UW or Stygian, Touchers can farm probably half of the game and can even vanquish some areas. Ingterrupt and condition I would say are more of a play style choice but they are viable, especially since you can condition/interrupt on the same build. Just leave BHA at home unless you want to be useless but deluded into thinking you are useful.

Notorious Bob · Nov 24, 2009, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

Where?

Trappers are good for...UW farming? Extremely inefficient, Touchers are good at A time for heroes maybe. Interrupters...can't think of anywhere. Condition...again, no where.

Have you actually played through as a Ranger primary, because your ranting, QQ'ing and baseless arguments tend to suggest that you haven't.

Trappers extremely inefficient - don't make me laugh. The loot nerf knobbled trappers but are you just stating that because of the RoK nerf that trapping isn't effective. Effectiveness /= loot. Sorry, but you're missing the point.

Just because you can't interrupt effectively in HM (even with BHA), doesn't mean everyone has the same problem. viz the Guildie who told me HM interrupting was not effective against bosses... au contraire!

Interrupting, condition spreading and back line spiking are THE way to go the the Ranger looking to play through PvE.

Sure you can cheese your way through with cookie cutter builds, but I've always found playing the game far more fun.

These wild claims of yours just seem to be an attempt to start a flame war and are completely baseless.

Almost as bad as the sin, who squeaked at me in AB that he was invincible and that my pathetic Ranger was just so much trash... a point I reminded him off as he fell lifeless at my feet!

Ugh · Nov 25, 2009, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notorious Bob

Trappers extremely inefficient - don't make me laugh. The loot nerf knobbled trappers but are you just stating that because of the RoK nerf that trapping isn't effective. Effectiveness /= loot. Sorry, but you're missing the point.

Trapping is useless in almost every aspect of the game. The only things traps are good for is Zelite and some old gimmicky HA builds.

Quote:

Just because you can't interrupt effectively in HM (even with BHA), doesn't mean everyone has the same problem.

You would have to have inhuman reflexes and single-digit ping to consistantly interrupt .66 second casting spells at long range.

Quote:

Interrupting, condition spreading and back line spiking are THE way to go the the Ranger looking to play through PvE.

Interrupting sucks in HM unless you have those aforementioned qualities. Condition spreading is only good if you're spreading dazed, blind, or DW.

Quote:

These wild claims of yours just seem to be an attempt to start a flame war and are completely baseless.

Everything he said was completely true.

Quote:

Almost as bad as the sin, who squeaked at me in AB that he was invincible and that my pathetic Ranger was just so much trash... a point I reminded him off as he fell lifeless at my feet!

Everyone knows Rangers are amazing in PvP. And, a good Ranger should beat a sin every time.

Notorious Bob · Nov 25, 2009, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

Trapping is useless in almost every aspect of the game. The only things traps are good for is Zelite and some old gimmicky HA builds.

RoK/loot nerf doesn't make trapping useless. Don't agree with you at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

You would have to have inhuman reflexes and single-digit ping to consistantly interrupt .66 second casting spells at long range.

Interrupting sucks in HM unless you have those aforementioned qualities.

Sorry, but you are mistaken.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

Everything he said was completely true.

Only if your in the business of believing everything you're told.

Sorry, but my main is a primary, I've played through all chapters, in HM, mainly with H/H and the odd PuG and have farmed my arse off to GWAMM. To play a Ranger you need a bit of imagination and versatility. If you believe all the anti-hype then fair enough, but believe me, most of it is absolute rubbish.

Ugh · Nov 25, 2009, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notorious Bob

RoK/loot nerf doesn't make trapping useless. Don't agree with you at all.

Okay, it's everything else about traps that make them useless. Their long recharge times, their... easily-interuptibleness (?), and their high energy costs make them useless. Farming is inefficient with traps because they're extremely slow and one mistake almost always results in a wipe. And, they're terrible in almost every other aspect of the game for obvious reasons. They don't have a place anywhere.

Quote:

Sorry, but you are mistaken.

Care to elaborate?

Quote:

Only if your in the business of believing everything you're told.

He didn't tell me anything, I just happen to agree with his post.

Quote:

To play a Ranger you need a bit of imagination and versatility. If you believe all the anti-hype then fair enough, but believe me, most of it is absolute rubbish.

What do you mean "believe"? I'm expressing my own views about this from my own personal experience.

Moonlit Azure · Nov 25, 2009, 02:04 AM // 02:04

With the class updates that have been happening, Rangers have basically lost their place in pve.

Nobody wants a ranger in their party.

Rits can use spirits better

100 blades is better than splinter barrage

Everything else is better than trapping